My second most commented entry, with 171 comments, is SG-Blackpool, and when I posted it I was really pleased with it. Since then though, the goal posts have moved a little, and from where I'm stood now I can appreciate that it's striking, technically good, and quite surreal. But, and this is becoming an increasingly big 'but' for me, it doesn't seem to say much. And that goes for a lot of the early stuff I posted: eye-catching, but mute.
And I guess this ties back into what I was saying yesterday regarding posting a series of shots that tell a story rather than just an image a day that may or may not communicate something to you.
Anyway, today's shot is one of three, shot in the empty hotel I mentioned yesterday. All three are broadly similiar – a pole dancer, the same style of border, a dirty floor beneath the banner – and all three, to my mind at least, offer much the same opportunities to think about the stories they might tell. And that's where I want to leave it for today: as an invitation to tell stories ... provoked by this image. I have my own ideas, which I'll share over the next day or so, but for now I'd much rather hear what you think.
captured camera lens focal length aperture shutter speed shooting mode exposure bias metering mode ISO flash image quality RAW converter cropped?
12.27pm on 11/6/06
Canon 20D
EF 17-40 f/4L USM
36mm (58mm equiv.)
f/5.0
1/15
aperture priority
-1/3
evaluative
200
no
RAW
C1 Pro
1x1
comment byKeith McGowan at 08:46 PM (GMT) on 13 June, 2006
For me it questions what we percieve as entertainment. One persons 'seedy' is another persons class night out worth getting a clean black shirt and a splash of Brut on for. It also seems to reflect a past glory as if perhaps we (or Blackpool) is maturing.
lee: one of the things I'll probably mention tomorrow, that I've been thinking about for smoe time, is that photographs are like mirrors – we don't see their content, rather we see ourselves reflected within them.
Keith: yes, Blackpool's history is a part of this sequence: at least that's one of the things I hoped would come across.
Keith said it best in regard to one persons 'seedy' is someone elses class. I get this feeling that she is actually a 'he', but I could be deathly wrong. I don't know much about Blackpool's history but I get the feeling it's definately evolved somewhat like the clubs in the US where the Studio 54's and infamous party spots like that are pretty much do not exsist. Without a doubt the 'seedy' lifestyle has evolved itself in different ways.
comment by rich at 10:09 PM (GMT) on 13 June, 2006
why the border? would look better without it.
comment byKarl Baumann at 10:24 PM (GMT) on 13 June, 2006
I´m looking forward to the story you want to tell us. This photo says not so much to me but I´m anxious to the next days :-)
comment byJamey at 10:48 PM (GMT) on 13 June, 2006
I think the border looks a little cheesy, to be honest. It makes the picture look like a clickable button on a badly-designed website (ie one that uses pictures for buttons). I'd also prefer it if the floor was sharper. I like the idea of a series of images but I'm not sure about your idea that we see ourselves reflected in photos. I think photos can remind us of things but they're still escapism to me, portraying scenes we wouldn't otherwise have seen, no matter how reminiscent of our own lives those images might be.
comment byJamey at 10:56 PM (GMT) on 13 June, 2006
Reading that back, I should probably admit that I'm not in the strongest position to be judging what's cheesy, having (as I do) a site with neon green highlights. Just my opinion etc :)
Jamey: 'cheesy' probably isn't the word I'd have chosen – cheap, maybe tacky, but not cheesy ;-) As for whether we see ourselves reflected in photographs: it's not about the familiarity of the scenes, it's about how we 'read' them. I'll write more about this at some point.
Weird the entertainer would be in, what looks like to me, a star spangled banner. Maybe its a little more risque than the union jack?
Very interesting thought about photographs and we seeing ourselves reflected within them.
comment byJamey at 11:08 PM (GMT) on 13 June, 2006
I meant cheesy in a modern, cyberspace kind of way. At least that's my excuse anyway.
As for reading photos, fair point but quite a lot of people don't spend that long looking at shots (however much we, as photographers, might want them to). Plenty of folk just go "Mmm... nice" or "Pretty colours" or stuff like that, as is evidenced on this and many other photoblogs.
comment by colin at 11:09 PM (GMT) on 13 June, 2006
"As for reading photos, fair point but quite a lot of people don't spend that long looking at shots."
I didn't mean 'reading' in the sense of spending time trying to work out what an image might mean. We/you/they can 'read' an image without any conscious effort.
"Plenty of folk just go 'Mmm... nice' or 'Pretty colours'"
Yep, I know, and I guess that's a part of the photoblog culture, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to tell stories, only that's it's more difficult in this environment. This is kind of what I was trying to say yesterday, that the serial image-a-day thing centres almost exclusively around, not surprisingly. the image of the day. And again, this is (mostly) fine, but it often means that it's very difficult to add contextual meaning to anything that we do.
colin: you're not going to be too impressed with the next two either then ;-)
comment by Joy at 11:25 PM (GMT) on 13 June, 2006
I've never commented although i've been watching this site for over a year through the wonders of RSS and I must say that, imho, that I find myself disagreeing with this picture. I'm trying to figure out why exactly, maybe I'm not all that interested or compelled in the 'story' that you are interested in telling. Maybe it's the presentation, with the lighter border, the brown background, and the picture askew. I'm sorry that my first comment here is so negative, for normally I really love looking at your work and it's something I get to look forward to every day. :-)
But this, this does not telling me anything I am interested in knowing nor, apparently, does it reflect anything that I value. If the dancer looked like she was genuinely having a good time, or had some sort of spark of passion that would be different but she seems to serve as merely an object here, a superficial glorification of sequins and moneyed gyrations. Maybe that's your point though...
I loved the mattress picture yesterday, the textures and the use of space were glorious.
Joy: there are various stories that I think this image and the next two tell and your second paragraph heads off in the direction of one of them. The third one in this sequence goes up on Thursday, at which point I'll post what I think they're about, and why I think they have some merit.
comment byJamey at 12:31 AM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
Dave - Well I for one will be interested to read your posts (as well as view the images) over the next few days to see how you expand on the idea of people 'reading' photographs. As both a photographer and a psychology lecturer I expect you're pretty well placed to offer some interesting theories on the subject.
As for the problem of one-a-day Vs Series... Would you not consider taking the approach Durham Township's used over the last few posts?
comment byUrbanite at 12:52 AM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
I had no idea she was a pole dancer until I read your discription, she looks.....bored, but then I suppose they all are doing that night after night.
I thought it was just a woman posing in a spangly dress, just standing still, no life in her. Pretty sad life eh ?
comment by 陌上花开 at 01:59 AM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
呵呵…… 挺好的
comment by Robert at 03:43 AM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
I'll take one sg-blackpools over ten of these any day.
comment by Bob at 05:18 AM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
Not for me. I'm not buying the story either. It's great if this is what you what and feel-- totally up to you, mate. It certainly isn't the subject matter, it''s just that this isn't even good *anything*. My opinion, of course.
what you have had to say is very important - a good shot needs content & needs to speak to you. but what is interesting is that this shot has content, but does not speak to me. the visual experience gets a little left behind the idea... and lets face it - nothing can tell a story like a beautiful image. SG-Blackpool says things to me that i could never in 100 pages describe, it moves me in a way that is unspecific, i cannot tell you what exectly it is.. but it sure a hell is talking to me.
... and the extra bits. i appreciated the thought that has gone into the border and the type. the type works for me, the font pulls it off. the border looks redundant and seems only to be there so the type has a nice place to sit - it's cheesy and in that 'genre', but still doesn't work for me.
comment bymooch at 09:35 AM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
S-G Blackpool: Maybe no narrative but it is a unique take on something that I think engaged people, although there did seem to be chromasia fever at that time which has somewhat subsided recently.
The image that has been posted today doesn't really create a narrative for me. I mainly like aesthetically pleasing images, those that make you smile or capture something quintessential about a moment. The image you posted here has left me cold, it still looks like a shot of some tat on the floor. Perhaps I lack imagination.
comment by m at 11:26 AM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
"A Picture paints a thousand words"
That said pictures can be interpreted in many ways, which means that your story will change with my interpretation and that of others.
Be interested to know if this story is set in the past or the present?
comment by rich at 01:11 PM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
i think the border is unnecessary, and the text is particularly bad. the image of the dancer is already framed by the edge of the flyer (or what-ever it is) and the floor beneath. adding the semi-transp border just comlicates things - it adds another line when there is already quite a lot going on in there. it makes it look less like a documentary image (which i feel that it is - a fine comment on blackpool) and more like, as jamey was saying, a cheap joke to be posted on one of many 'hilarious' websites or emailed round the office. keep it simple - your simple images are best.
Uhm, the first thing on my mind (as destructured as it pops out):
A magazine. Left there. Abandoned. The empty hotel. Dirty floors and dusty fornitures.
I see a group of children, bored to play in the usual courtyard around their houses. Sharing a secret. The empy hotel, something concerning prohibition. Not a good place to go to play, as their parents always say.
And the used to go, sometime, entering in from a broken window, to explore the empty rooms. And, above all, in the empty hotel, somehwere in one of the abandoned rooms, there's a glamour magazine, with images of half-dressed of sensual women dancing near a pole...
comment by Janet at 02:30 PM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
IMO, if you have a series of pictures that you want to tell a story then they all need to be posted at the same time.
Dave, I have to say it doesn't speak to me, but I'm happy to keep an open mind until the series is complete. I was interested in your comment:
"...photographs are like mirrors – we don't see their content, rather we see ourselves reflected within them."
I'm sure you will agree that this is not in any way peculiar to photographs, a judgemental eye will always glean the reflected surface and call it truth. Lacking the imagination to see deeper is what drives our image-driven culture.
comment by Peter at 06:01 PM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
Evey picture has a story. It's up to us to communicate with your photos.
As long as you can communicate with the photos put on here, you know it'll have meaning to at least one person.
comment by a fan at 07:04 PM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
although i am not attracted to this photo, i am intrigued about the story you are trying to tell. i look forward to the upcoming shots.
comment by colin at 07:37 PM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
Dave - taking into account my previous comment I would like to add that I follow this site every day and I have complete admiration for the work you do, especially the stuff from/in/around/on/over etc the beach and seafront at Blackpool. I can only hope to be as good as you some day.
Humble regards,
comment by Robin at 07:40 PM (GMT) on 14 June, 2006
We seem to be getting back to the Art photographers description of photographs as mirrors to the soul or windows on the world. Maybe you have become bored with novelty and ease of photoshop created 'pretty picture'?
Not a criticism of your pictures from me- i am a fan.
To tell a story you need to communicate ideas and experience as well as information.I shall keep visiting to see how it goes.
Thanks everyone. I've picked up quite a few of the points you've raised on tomorrow's entry, but those that I haven't covered are ...
Jamey: I'll try and pick up the 'reading images' point on Thursday's entry, the third in this series.
Bob: what story aren't you buying?
Janet (and others): yes, on reflection, it would probably have been better to put up all three at once. It's definitely something I'll consider next time.
Robin: yes, I've realised today that the 'ideas and experience' that you, as viewers, need to make sense of what I think these images are about is something that won't simply come across with the images. I've written a more extensive backstory for tomorrow's entry that should go some way towards explaining them.
comment bybjorn at 04:06 AM (GMT) on 15 June, 2006
First thing I noticed about this one and #2 is the text and the border imo the picture should be the first thing to be noticed. I like the idea/photograph but: to much border and awful text, maybe you could post them somewehere without these ?
comment bySysagent at 11:03 AM (GMT) on 17 June, 2006
The border doesnt look good to me, same with the text.
As for the image portraying something to me, it doesn't really as I know about Blackpool already and it just further enhances my perception of the area.
Nice idea but a bit of "fine tuning" needed on the image thought process.
My second most commented entry, with 171 comments, is SG-Blackpool, and when I posted it I was really pleased with it. Since then though, the goal posts have moved a little, and from where I'm stood now I can appreciate that it's striking, technically good, and quite surreal. But, and this is becoming an increasingly big 'but' for me, it doesn't seem to say much. And that goes for a lot of the early stuff I posted: eye-catching, but mute.
And I guess this ties back into what I was saying yesterday regarding posting a series of shots that tell a story rather than just an image a day that may or may not communicate something to you.
Anyway, today's shot is one of three, shot in the empty hotel I mentioned yesterday. All three are broadly similiar – a pole dancer, the same style of border, a dirty floor beneath the banner – and all three, to my mind at least, offer much the same opportunities to think about the stories they might tell. And that's where I want to leave it for today: as an invitation to tell stories ... provoked by this image. I have my own ideas, which I'll share over the next day or so, but for now I'd much rather hear what you think.
camera
lens
focal length
aperture
shutter speed
shooting mode
exposure bias
metering mode
ISO
flash
image quality
RAW converter
cropped?
Canon 20D
EF 17-40 f/4L USM
36mm (58mm equiv.)
f/5.0
1/15
aperture priority
-1/3
evaluative
200
no
RAW
C1 Pro
1x1
dirty lady on a dirty floor.
hmmm, well... what can i say? i don't know.
For me it questions what we percieve as entertainment. One persons 'seedy' is another persons class night out worth getting a clean black shirt and a splash of Brut on for. It also seems to reflect a past glory as if perhaps we (or Blackpool) is maturing.
lee: one of the things I'll probably mention tomorrow, that I've been thinking about for smoe time, is that photographs are like mirrors – we don't see their content, rather we see ourselves reflected within them.
Keith: yes, Blackpool's history is a part of this sequence: at least that's one of the things I hoped would come across.
Keith said it best in regard to one persons 'seedy' is someone elses class. I get this feeling that she is actually a 'he', but I could be deathly wrong. I don't know much about Blackpool's history but I get the feeling it's definately evolved somewhat like the clubs in the US where the Studio 54's and infamous party spots like that are pretty much do not exsist. Without a doubt the 'seedy' lifestyle has evolved itself in different ways.
why the border? would look better without it.
I´m looking forward to the story you want to tell us. This photo says not so much to me but I´m anxious to the next days :-)
rich: better? Why?
I think the border looks a little cheesy, to be honest. It makes the picture look like a clickable button on a badly-designed website (ie one that uses pictures for buttons). I'd also prefer it if the floor was sharper. I like the idea of a series of images but I'm not sure about your idea that we see ourselves reflected in photos. I think photos can remind us of things but they're still escapism to me, portraying scenes we wouldn't otherwise have seen, no matter how reminiscent of our own lives those images might be.
Reading that back, I should probably admit that I'm not in the strongest position to be judging what's cheesy, having (as I do) a site with neon green highlights. Just my opinion etc :)
Jamey: 'cheesy' probably isn't the word I'd have chosen – cheap, maybe tacky, but not cheesy ;-) As for whether we see ourselves reflected in photographs: it's not about the familiarity of the scenes, it's about how we 'read' them. I'll write more about this at some point.
Weird the entertainer would be in, what looks like to me, a star spangled banner. Maybe its a little more risque than the union jack?
Very interesting thought about photographs and we seeing ourselves reflected within them.
I meant cheesy in a modern, cyberspace kind of way. At least that's my excuse anyway.
As for reading photos, fair point but quite a lot of people don't spend that long looking at shots (however much we, as photographers, might want them to). Plenty of folk just go "Mmm... nice" or "Pretty colours" or stuff like that, as is evidenced on this and many other photoblogs.
left feeling 'so what'. Apologies for bluntness.
"As for reading photos, fair point but quite a lot of people don't spend that long looking at shots."
I didn't mean 'reading' in the sense of spending time trying to work out what an image might mean. We/you/they can 'read' an image without any conscious effort.
"Plenty of folk just go 'Mmm... nice' or 'Pretty colours'"
Yep, I know, and I guess that's a part of the photoblog culture, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to tell stories, only that's it's more difficult in this environment. This is kind of what I was trying to say yesterday, that the serial image-a-day thing centres almost exclusively around, not surprisingly. the image of the day. And again, this is (mostly) fine, but it often means that it's very difficult to add contextual meaning to anything that we do.
colin: you're not going to be too impressed with the next two either then ;-)
I've never commented although i've been watching this site for over a year through the wonders of RSS and I must say that, imho, that I find myself disagreeing with this picture. I'm trying to figure out why exactly, maybe I'm not all that interested or compelled in the 'story' that you are interested in telling. Maybe it's the presentation, with the lighter border, the brown background, and the picture askew. I'm sorry that my first comment here is so negative, for normally I really love looking at your work and it's something I get to look forward to every day. :-)
But this, this does not telling me anything I am interested in knowing nor, apparently, does it reflect anything that I value. If the dancer looked like she was genuinely having a good time, or had some sort of spark of passion that would be different but she seems to serve as merely an object here, a superficial glorification of sequins and moneyed gyrations. Maybe that's your point though...
I loved the mattress picture yesterday, the textures and the use of space were glorious.
Joy: there are various stories that I think this image and the next two tell and your second paragraph heads off in the direction of one of them. The third one in this sequence goes up on Thursday, at which point I'll post what I think they're about, and why I think they have some merit.
Dave - Well I for one will be interested to read your posts (as well as view the images) over the next few days to see how you expand on the idea of people 'reading' photographs. As both a photographer and a psychology lecturer I expect you're pretty well placed to offer some interesting theories on the subject.
As for the problem of one-a-day Vs Series... Would you not consider taking the approach Durham Township's used over the last few posts?
I had no idea she was a pole dancer until I read your discription, she looks.....bored, but then I suppose they all are doing that night after night.
I thought it was just a woman posing in a spangly dress, just standing still, no life in her. Pretty sad life eh ?
呵呵…… 挺好的
I'll take one sg-blackpools over ten of these any day.
Not for me. I'm not buying the story either. It's great if this is what you what and feel-- totally up to you, mate. It certainly isn't the subject matter, it''s just that this isn't even good *anything*. My opinion, of course.
what you have had to say is very important - a good shot needs content & needs to speak to you. but what is interesting is that this shot has content, but does not speak to me. the visual experience gets a little left behind the idea... and lets face it - nothing can tell a story like a beautiful image. SG-Blackpool says things to me that i could never in 100 pages describe, it moves me in a way that is unspecific, i cannot tell you what exectly it is.. but it sure a hell is talking to me.
... and the extra bits. i appreciated the thought that has gone into the border and the type. the type works for me, the font pulls it off. the border looks redundant and seems only to be there so the type has a nice place to sit - it's cheesy and in that 'genre', but still doesn't work for me.
S-G Blackpool: Maybe no narrative but it is a unique take on something that I think engaged people, although there did seem to be chromasia fever at that time which has somewhat subsided recently.
The image that has been posted today doesn't really create a narrative for me. I mainly like aesthetically pleasing images, those that make you smile or capture something quintessential about a moment. The image you posted here has left me cold, it still looks like a shot of some tat on the floor. Perhaps I lack imagination.
"A Picture paints a thousand words"
That said pictures can be interpreted in many ways, which means that your story will change with my interpretation and that of others.
Be interested to know if this story is set in the past or the present?
i think the border is unnecessary, and the text is particularly bad. the image of the dancer is already framed by the edge of the flyer (or what-ever it is) and the floor beneath. adding the semi-transp border just comlicates things - it adds another line when there is already quite a lot going on in there. it makes it look less like a documentary image (which i feel that it is - a fine comment on blackpool) and more like, as jamey was saying, a cheap joke to be posted on one of many 'hilarious' websites or emailed round the office. keep it simple - your simple images are best.
Uhm, the first thing on my mind (as destructured as it pops out):
A magazine. Left there. Abandoned. The empty hotel. Dirty floors and dusty fornitures.
I see a group of children, bored to play in the usual courtyard around their houses. Sharing a secret. The empy hotel, something concerning prohibition. Not a good place to go to play, as their parents always say.
And the used to go, sometime, entering in from a broken window, to explore the empty rooms. And, above all, in the empty hotel, somehwere in one of the abandoned rooms, there's a glamour magazine, with images of half-dressed of sensual women dancing near a pole...
IMO, if you have a series of pictures that you want to tell a story then they all need to be posted at the same time.
Dave, I have to say it doesn't speak to me, but I'm happy to keep an open mind until the series is complete. I was interested in your comment:
"...photographs are like mirrors – we don't see their content, rather we see ourselves reflected within them."
I'm sure you will agree that this is not in any way peculiar to photographs, a judgemental eye will always glean the reflected surface and call it truth. Lacking the imagination to see deeper is what drives our image-driven culture.
Evey picture has a story. It's up to us to communicate with your photos.
As long as you can communicate with the photos put on here, you know it'll have meaning to at least one person.
although i am not attracted to this photo, i am intrigued about the story you are trying to tell. i look forward to the upcoming shots.
Dave - taking into account my previous comment I would like to add that I follow this site every day and I have complete admiration for the work you do, especially the stuff from/in/around/on/over etc the beach and seafront at Blackpool. I can only hope to be as good as you some day.
Humble regards,
We seem to be getting back to the Art photographers description of photographs as mirrors to the soul or windows on the world. Maybe you have become bored with novelty and ease of photoshop created 'pretty picture'?
Not a criticism of your pictures from me- i am a fan.
To tell a story you need to communicate ideas and experience as well as information.I shall keep visiting to see how it goes.
Thanks everyone. I've picked up quite a few of the points you've raised on tomorrow's entry, but those that I haven't covered are ...
Jamey: I'll try and pick up the 'reading images' point on Thursday's entry, the third in this series.
Bob: what story aren't you buying?
Janet (and others): yes, on reflection, it would probably have been better to put up all three at once. It's definitely something I'll consider next time.
Robin: yes, I've realised today that the 'ideas and experience' that you, as viewers, need to make sense of what I think these images are about is something that won't simply come across with the images. I've written a more extensive backstory for tomorrow's entry that should go some way towards explaining them.
First thing I noticed about this one and #2 is the text and the border imo the picture should be the first thing to be noticed. I like the idea/photograph but: to much border and awful text, maybe you could post them somewehere without these ?
The border doesnt look good to me, same with the text.
As for the image portraying something to me, it doesn't really as I know about Blackpool already and it just further enhances my perception of the area.
Nice idea but a bit of "fine tuning" needed on the image thought process.