<<< o >>>Bernoulli's Theorem 81 comments + add yours
chromasia.com

I have a thing about seagulls, not that you'd realise, I've only put up three of them in a little over two years. I think the problem, well, the reason I've put up so few, is that I have this idea that there's a definitive seagull shot – the seagull shot to end all seagull shots. And as usual, this isn't it, but I do quite like it. Oh, and unusually, this is cropped to 2474x1649px, which is way over the top by my standards, but I had the 50mm lens on the camera at the time and couldn't get any closer.

Oh, and on a totally unrelated matter: what's the difference between being inspired and simply copying something?

captured
camera
lens
aperture
shutter speed
shooting mode
exposure bias
metering mode
ISO
flash
image quality
RAW converter
cropped?
4.25pm on 7/9/05
Canon 20D
EF 50mm f/1.8 II
f/4.5
1/1000
aperture priority
+0.0
evaluative
100
580EX
RAW
C1 Pro
yes
 
3x2 + fylde coast
comment by Jason Wall at 09:28 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

chromablog is pretty darn close. looks like copying to me.

comment by Andy Cogbill at 09:31 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

Inspiration is visible in certain details and hommages. Copying is whatever that web site is doing.

comment by Chris at 09:44 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery - right?

At the same time, theft is the surest sign of a lack of creativity, and I am sure his photos & work will bear that out.

I don't look forward to your site design in my RSS feed every day - I look forward to your photos. He can't steal those. (Legally)

comment by kathy at 09:50 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

waaaaaiiiiitaminute.....did you use a template or something to design your website? because chromablog is practically an exact copy. if it were me, i'd think it would be more trouble to try and copy all those details of your site instead of just coming up with my own design.

i don't get it.

awesome picture by the way! really like the contrast in color and focus.

comment by John [shots] at 09:52 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

From a graphic designers point of view it is a blatant rip off and I would probably be having words.

From the point of view that your website design is for showcasing photographs then I wouldn't worry too much, unless he starts putting your work on his site.

John

comment by mark [markmyshots] at 09:56 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

great shot! I assume you burned the clouds? I love that effect on the sky. great dramatic contrast between it and the white of the seagull.

btw, about the copycat site....i dont mind that he copied your main page template, what annoys me is that he copied your browse template and your about template....thats just totally unacceptable in my book.

comment by Aris at 10:00 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

Chromablog may well be a satire - or a piss take.

comment by John [shots] at 10:05 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

It's got to be a piss take - a bit like the daily dose one that hung around for a while.

comment by Sharla at 10:08 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

You've made less-than-blatant references to the ultimate seagull pic before and I always thought that was probably because they are so facinating -- to capture those antics and flight that our minds so easily record would be a tremendous challenge realized. This shot is very nice, especially the open air feel and the reversed contrast between the fore- and background.

As to the copied web design, I've often wished others would copy some of your elements. On other sites, the wandering prev/next buttons are a pain, the cluttered margins a distraction, the thumbnail images a waste, the fixed brilliant colors a wash. That said, I also want variety enough that I don't lose track of which site I'm viewing. If there are lines that shouldn't be crossed, the last one has to be a look and name that are distinguishable only with effort.

comment by Viking054 at 10:09 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

Strange... His site is next to identical. But his source code is so different... I'm baffled. Oh well, we all know who was here first.

Nice seagull, by the way.

comment by michaela at 10:14 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

Copying takes no original idea. We may all be inspired by your work, or web page -- if that's the case, we should use it as a foundation... then we can build our own site, not copy yours exactly and say its ours. That's morally wrong for any person, admirer or not. The other web page is nothing more than a copy. Zero originality.

comment by Brian at 10:17 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

Very dramatic seagull shot. Inspiration is all around us - I'd argue that a large portion of what many of us do anymore is based upon some sort of inspiration (whether it be from a photo blog, or a classic 'master' of photography). However, it is quite obvious that chromablog is straight up copying chromasia. Not only in design and style, but even the NAME had to parallel yours, for goodness sake!

comment by Tea party tom at 10:20 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

I am frequently inspired to think further about the content of your photographs, sometime amazed at your commitment to a search for more from the subject matter.

The person copying your site design may find there own audience but I have no plans to return to "the other" site.

comment by f.d. rahman at 10:21 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

beautiful shot.. wonderfully captured. I wouldn't worry so much about the other guy.. it seems he is already getting negative feedback from your loyal viewers..

comment by Mark [londonrubbish] at 10:26 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

That's a very good shot and I'm surprised that it's a heavy crop because the quality is still fantastic. Good work. Did it require much work in Photoshop?

Chromablog? Ahhh, whatever. You've got far more big-boys-toys on your kit list than he has. That's what matters :)

comment by rw at 10:31 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

I too have tried the ultimate seagull shot, and way too many times at that. Not sure I will ever post one as I am yet to be happy.

comment by tobias at 10:38 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

Inspired is something of your own insight.

Copying is the opposite.

This is a rather beautiful shot. Great sky and a wonderful clarity in terms of the seagull. These two really compliment one another.

comment by tobias at 10:40 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

Oh, just clicked that link. Did you give him the site?

If not, that takes the piss and his title... ultra takes the piss....

Sorry, thought you were trying to be a little philosophical.

comment by Jem at 11:07 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

I've seen the other site and yes it looks like an exact copy, but to be honest your images are far more advanced, and thats what gets you the traffic and fan base :)

Great shot Dave - i'm amazed you only used the 50mm lens. He was obviously flying quite close to you then!

comment by Jim at 11:09 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

That's quite stunning - it's incredible to think you took that photo from the ground, and not up in the sky, right next to the seagull. The moody clouds really add to the photo too.

Chromablog is also stunning, for different reasons. I can't imagine how someone could do such a blatant copy without feeling just a tiny bit self-conscious / silly / lazy etc. etc.

comment by Enike at 11:17 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

That's a total ripoff. I can't believe (well, yes I can) he did that.

comment by sara at 11:25 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

just checked out chromablog... it's sad he copied all of it... is it a template or something? anyway, at least the name...
but i liked his portfolio

comment by Ioannis at 11:47 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

I personally provide my work in a creative commons license, thus allowing people to be inspired or blatantly steal stuff if they ackgnowledge me.

For photographs, this might be a bad idea. For a site design, I'd let him get away purely on the basis that he is obviously a crazy fan and not a commercial company trying to make a buck. That said, he should at least ackgnowledge where his inspiration, or CSS, came from.

comment by Mike at 11:52 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

This is an awesome shot, Dave. Having trouble thinking of what your ultimate seagull shot would be, since this looks pretty ideal to me!

I can't believe that Chromablog guy. Horrible. Pretty willful and blatant stuff...

comment by Jesse Watkins at 11:54 PM (GMT) on 7 September, 2005

I've felt inspired by your HTML and CSS before, and I've read the message that you put on the pages asking to not steal your work...he or she apparently did not read up too well (actually, they did read well enough to delete the message from their code).

I like the emotion of the color and contrast depths of the sky. It has a very nice crop. Could you try to catch a 'gull at telephoto, then do a crop so that you get a close-up on its face? I would enjoy a nice, detailed beak and feathers.

Thanks, also, for supporting the relief effort for Katrina in the USA.

comment by flying cow at 12:03 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

fantabulous!

comment by Arthur Jenkins at 12:07 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Beautiful shot, David. The perfectly captured transparency of the wing feathers and the boldness of the colours are just the sort of things about your photography (a.k.a. Chromasia) that inspire me.

Great stuff.

As for that other place... what a load of &*%$£@!

comment by Lady of the House at 12:10 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

I love this shot. It's like the seagull is trying to find his way before the storm comes.

comment by miguel at 12:28 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

there is a big difference betewns chromas...
the quality of the pictures. your pictures are much much more better!!!!!

by the way. did you see my today's picture? is inspired on some I saw from your blog (http://elfotodiario.blogspot.com/2005/09/algas.html)

comment by VelviaPix at 12:46 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Ok Dave,

First, the seagull is perfect.

Second, While I have been inspired by your work, and I have even asked you how to do something and attempted to do it, there is a big difference between learning and imitating, or even copying. I think "the other site" speaks for itself, because talent cannot be copied. Your images have an effect that I have almost never seen anywhere else, and that is why, I am sure you have become the number one photoblog for so long.

I say we, who appreciate your work will keep coming to Chromasia. and I say you should at least let Brandon Stone about his site. Maybe he can be persuaded to be a little more creative.

comment by jen at 01:09 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

i love this photo. love.

and whats annoying about that guy ripping you off is that you have always been more than generous with your fanbase in answering specific questions about how you did something in photoshop, or what kind of technique you used or whatever else. you hide nothing, you are very open, and you seem to have no "secrets". so for this guy to steal from you and try to claim it as his own is akin to a slap in the face. but no worries- there's been (and there will be) no confusion about who rocks a camera better.

comment by sinstone at 01:19 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

beautiful shot. so crisp!

comment by Francesco at 01:27 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Great Photo, I like the originality of it, although being a common subject.

comment by pfong at 01:45 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Gorgeous lighting and texture. You've really nailed the exposure here. superb.

comment by Mandie at 02:45 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

I've often considered 'stealing' your code because it is the best looking/most easily accessible photoblog I've seen.

But I have more respect. I saw your source, and your openness to help anyone who wants it should speak for itself. Shame on the other person.

I totally have to get a 50mm lens. You're right - it's not the one. But it's darn close. Me = very impressed.

comment by Fellow Eskimo at 02:53 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

If this is the same dude that asked on the PixelPost boards for your template...he was told to ask you first! *shakes her head* That is just blatent stealing, but I love your pic, it does stand out.

comment by Julian at 03:01 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

A very sad imitation. Still, I recommend people go to Chromablog to check out the comments! Very funny. Perhaps I will set up a remarkably similair site called Chromasnap posting pictures taken on my Ixus!

Oh BTW - like the seagull shot.

comment by regularjoe at 03:03 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

long time listener, first time caller...

Just had to chime in from an art director's point of view. That is copying. Having said that, we have a saying in my office..."We only steal from the best!"

As for the gull. I find your take on them interesting. I always shy away from shooting them because they're so "common". Some people I know call them "beach rats". Nonetheless, the photo is excellent and the retouching exquisite. As always...

comment by Bert at 03:52 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

believe it is Bernoulli's Principle, and will surmise you are speaking of the lift of wings (airplane or bird, I guess). Very nice picture.

comment by Joe Lencioni at 03:56 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

dang. nice shot.

comment by Kevin at 04:18 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Great shot! I like the fact that the bird looks a little like he needs a bath. If he was all perfectly clean and white, I'd look over this as just another seagull shot. Can't wait for the "Greatest Seagull Shot of All Time".

And in case you haven't realized it, people try to imitate your site because it is awesome. I've seen people trying to recreate it in different forums.

I just realized my site looks reeealy similar to yours and I'm using a default template that came with pixelpost. I did add nice-titles to my site, but I knew about that before I saw it here. Not that all that matters, nobody visits my site anyway because I'm still a new kid on the camera block.

comment by seriocomic at 05:17 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

This is one of the better 'bird in flight' shots i've seen, so don't beat yourself up on it. Love the D&B work on the clouds, and the almost 3D effect the selective editing that you have done that really pushes the gull to the fore...

As for chromacrap.com or whatever it was, the quality of images will be his/her downfall. Having copied and been copied in the past - it's all part of the fabric of the web - different story if s/he started putting your images on the site!

However, I do note that the copyright meta-tag does refer to the design as theirs...not good.

comment by Ryan at 05:23 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Wow!

comment by jeremy evans thomas at 05:24 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Hi everyone-

just a thought, not that it will make people any less upset; but it appears to me that the chromablog copy is actually a spoof. look at the person's comments on kites: "Anyway, shooting kites is a good subject. There are lot of colors."

Looks like he's making fun. Waste of time in my opinion; guess some people have a lot of time on their hands though.

Another guess: if my guess is true, the person is loving all the angry posts on the chromablog site.

BTW, the best thing about chromasia's design is that it is about the images; doesn't try to be fancy.

comment by David at 06:15 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

I'm a bit baffled - if he could put together his dancing rollei, could he not come up with his own site design?

As for your seagull - crackerjack image! The toning on the sky is magnificent as usual. You must have been inspired when you pulled this into C1 Pro!

comment by Geoff at 06:30 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Great shot dave. Incredible that you captured this with a 50mm. Did he alight from your shoulder?

<

Really? What a curious idea. Why should there ever be a shot to end all shots? This is a fantastic seagull shot, but I can easily imagine 100 other equally amazing seagull shots, no better, no worse.

I have always loved your design for a photoblog. One of the best, if not the best, I have seen on the net. Clean, uncluttered, elegant, practical - almost everything you could wish for in a photoblog. (The only thing that's missing in my opinion is a forum...)

So if I were you I'd be flattered that your site is deemed good enough to copy. As others have said, he'll stand or fall on the quality of his work, not his web design. :) I am planning my own photoblog, and intend to borrow a few ideas from your site, as I have been very inspired by it, but I would limit myself to broader concept borrowings, as opposed to a straight rip. That's just too tacky for words.

Anyway, back to the shot.

I love it. Dramatic lighting, beautiful focus, wonderful exposure... how do you do it? Did you darken the clouds at the top yourself? It's almost too perfect.

comment by Carol at 08:03 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Re the copysite: Well he certainly got our attention - which is what he wanted.
I think it's a provocative experiment: what will happen if....?

I agree with jeremy above, posting angry comments will only increase his glee.

Shame he hasn't used his time & energy to create his own style...

comment by Leo at 08:04 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Just the seagull by itself, well honestly I might not have taken a second look at this picture. What made this picture for me was the dramatic backdrop.

I mean, where I used to live, once the lunch bell rang for high school, we were literally dive bombed by hords of seagulls, so I've seen them all in a sense -_-

However, juxtapose this gull onto such a background and you've got a money shot.

It's an interesting choice of composition, I think the seagull's a little too towards the middle for my taste. The action flows right, and I would've preferred more space in that direction, not a biggie, more like a personal nitpick. Well shot.

comment by Roberto at 08:17 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

About your shot nothing to say than great.
Concerning the chromablog design It's seems rather to be stolen from your blog than inspired. For instance about me, I have had inspiration also from chromasia for my blog design, as I wrote in the about page, but I think it is bit different than your.

comment by matt at 08:33 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

stunning

comment by Maiko at 09:46 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Nice shot, a bit blurry but nice photoshopping over here !

comment by stephane at 10:06 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Hi,

I'd like to see the original pic... and some photoshop trics would be welcome to help us (me) reach the tenth of your talent.

Thanks

Stéphane

comment by chromablog at 10:15 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Chromasia,

Sorry for all.
I'll change all of my website and close it tonight.
Sorry.

comment by GP at 10:37 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Wonderful, simply wonderful! Nothing else to add. :-)

comment by de ivo at 11:52 AM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Simply spectacular!

comment by wildmary at 01:21 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

for the design problem... isn't chromasia blog made with a template ? I know a lot of photoblogs which have the same design, with same colors, same navigation system, etc.

an explanation for the photos could be interesting by chromablog : is it just an inspiration ? is it a parody like "daily dose of parody" for the "daily dose of imagery" blog ?
I see only 3 photos, were there more ? if it's just for the 3 photos that there is a scandal, I find that a little disproportionate...
can anyone explain me ?

comment by Tom B at 03:12 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Shameful and showed a complete lack of integrity. Nice seagul.

comment by Timmy at 05:08 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Have you checked out the comments on chromablog. You have some die hard fans (including me). They are tearing him a new one. Keep up the good work.

comment by Beth at 05:19 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Aside from chromablog's nonsense - I loooooooove this photo - here in the US seagulls are treated as the rats of the sea - I personally think they are beautiful. This shot captures why.

comment by Beth at 05:53 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

In regards to I'm OK - check out this recent CNN article on these types of sites. I know they mean well but there is a definite problem with too much help :(

comment by SteveO at 06:14 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Fantastic picture Dave, that guy seems to have closed his crappy imitation site down now, what an ass. Funny he seemed to do it straight after John gave him some legal advice, hehe.

Im amazed how close you got with the 50mm, thought you said the other day you hated cropping ;-) (dont get me wrong, im glad you did like)

comment by SteveO at 06:14 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Fantastic picture Dave, that guy seems to have closed his crappy imitation site down now, what an ass. Funny he seemed to do it straight after John gave him some legal advice, hehe.

Im amazed how close you got with the 50mm, thought you said the other day you hated cropping ;-) (dont get me wrong, im glad you did like)

comment by Thermo-crime at 06:36 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Out of this world...

comment by suseu at 06:43 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

cool title for great picture :)

comment by SJ at 07:23 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005


Have you read Richard Bach's 'Jonathan Livingston Seagull'? There are masses of nice seagull photos in there. This is pretty spectacular though.

I found the chromablog site a little bizzare. he/she seem genuinely sorry so maybe they really believed it was acceptable at the time.

comment by Beth at 08:34 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Djn - only one of the three links to your other seagull pics are working. :(

comment by naz at 08:37 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Well done Bert, I was scrolling all the way through the comments on rats and beach rats. Thought nobody would spot it in all that kerfuffle. Bernoulli's Principle it is :)

comment by JELIEL at 08:44 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

That picture is jaw droppingly great :D

comment by Neil at 09:03 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

An original is a creation motivated by desire. Any reproduction of an original is motivated by necessity. ... To create is divine, to reproduce is human.

-Man Ray

comment by xben007 at 09:18 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

Awesome!

comment by djn1 at 10:03 PM (GMT) on 8 September, 2005

With restpect to chromablog: it's gone, so I guess that's the end of it. For the most part I'm delighted if my work or chromasia inspires people to do something similar, but an almost identical clone, with no acknowlegement is rather more irksome. So, chromablog: I hope you put your site back up, but hopefully in a slightly different form.

As for how chromasia was designed and how it's operated: I use Movable Type so it does use templates, but I wrote these myself, and while it does share some common features with other blogs (simple navigation, uncluttered, and so on) I do think it has its own identity, albeit one that's similar to quite a few other blogs.

Sharla (and Mike and Geoff): I know there isn't an ultimate seagull pic', but I do have some ideas about what would get close – a moody sky, much greater clarity, a pure white bird lit in a way that retains the contrast in its feathers, the reflection of the clouds in its eye, and so on. Basically, something a bit like this one only loads better ;-)

Mark: the PS work in this shot involved a masked Curves adjustment for the seagull and the same for the sky (plus some colour correction/changes and the introduction of a vignette).

Jim: this was shot from Blackpool's North Pier, hence the feeling that you're up their with the seagull.

Jesse: ok, I'll give the 'seagull headshot' a try at some point.

miguel: yep, that's the sort of shot I've tried to take quite a few times.

Kevin: yes, your site is similar to chromasia, but I have no problem with that.

Beth (and SJ): 'rats of the sea'? Seagulls? Haven't you guys read Jonathan Livingstone Seagull? ;-) As for the CNN article – that hadn't occured to me,thanks for the link.

SteveO: yes, normally, I hade cropping, but I couldn't resist with this one.

comment by Rogan at 05:14 AM (GMT) on 9 September, 2005

In PS, you talk about using masks quite a bit. I have tried to do this myself, but I am almost never able to get a perfect mask between the sky and the forground/subject that doesn't apply a noticable amount of freaky adjustment at the seams. This is particularly true with a fuzzy foreground (a lot of grass, or wheat, or something like that, whcih meets the sky) which may not be in perfect focus. Playing with depth of field makes masking even more difficult. Do you have any great tips, suggestions, or resources for isolating the perfect mask?

Thanks.

R.

comment by miles at 11:31 PM (GMT) on 9 September, 2005

great job with this image Dave.

comment by m at 09:03 PM (GMT) on 11 September, 2005

F'ing A
:-)

comment by frisky? at 04:22 AM (GMT) on 12 September, 2005

this is a beauty! love it!

comment by m d at 03:14 PM (GMT) on 12 September, 2005

I didn't see the offending site 'cause it's already offline...

I love Chromasia, and come check it out about twice a week, but with all due respect, you can hardly call this front page a "design." Yes, it is very appropriate to present photos on an uncluttered minimal front page, and it makes perfect sense to put all the nav stuff on top since people with smaller screen would have to scroll down each time the page reloads considering the size of most photos. But all those things are common sense more than design. The date on the top right and the copyright stuff at the bottom are also very standard. Again, it all makes sense and looks good, but I don't think there's anything very original here, beside the photos of course...

As for the back end, it's MT, the most popular CM system out there...

I find using Chromasia's popularity for public crucifixion of some random guy trying his hand at a photoblog, (who clearly doesn't hide his reference, hence the name) a little unfortunate, not so elegant... unexpected from someone who seem to usually be a very sensible person from what I can tell by looking at the photos...

Ho well...

comment by angela at 05:09 PM (GMT) on 12 September, 2005

SPECTACULAR ! DRAMATIC ! PERFECT FRAMING ...

comment by Paul Monroe at 01:22 PM (GMT) on 13 September, 2005

Never commented before -I always love your work - this photo being no exception. I usually catch up on your site every couple of weeks, so I admit I didn't see the Chromablog site but I feel compelled to echo md on the issue. I'm concerned that a bunch of folks went scurrying over to this guys site ala lemmings and bullied him out of existence. Hopefully the comments left at the guys site were on the tactful side...

comment by Steve at 05:59 PM (GMT) on 11 October, 2005

Great picture, AND i'm glad someone else understands the relevance of Bernoulli's Theorem!

comment by Anton at 10:07 PM (GMT) on 8 November, 2005

I'd have to back up M D on what he/she said. I did not have the chance to see the other site, since it has already been removed, so it would not be possible to comment on any similarities or differences :)
However, what you have here is by no means unique, nor can it constitute 'design'. A lot of people involved in photography are more or less aware of the most suitable means to present their work... and white or gray (sometimes black) background, along with some kind of a frame would be a very valid option for almost anyone.
Furthermore, a few months ago, I found some software and it was not MT and its default layout was very similar to what you have here, the navigation, the copyright notice, etc.

Now, this is by no means an attempt at being mean or something, just sharing my thoughts :) I like your stuff very much and I not only come here on regular basis, but share this with friends of mine who enjoy work nicely done such as yours.

By the way, before I discovered your site, I was already a regular visitor at http://chromogenic.net which I am sure you will notice to be a bit similar as well :) (the chrome part is worth mentioning as well). Now, who was first and all... this should not really matter, most would agree this is about photography and not about any stupid layout.

Please accept my apologies for the longish post and horrible English... it's not my native language.

comment by vitariz at 02:32 AM (GMT) on 11 November, 2005

your pictures always thrill me. this one in particular makes me want to "navigate" those wild skies.