I went to work by train today, so took my camera along in the hope of getting something decent to put up this evening, but hadn't realised that the batteries were flat. So, it's back to raiding the London shots from a couple of weeks ago. As for this one: I've had a go at processing it a few times, but wasn't happy with any of my attempts until I decided to crop it to 4x2, all of which has got me thinking about my attitude to cropping. On the whole, I try to avoid it, at least in any substantial way; mostly because I think in-camera compostion is important. Changes such as this though (which in this instance removed an unremarkable expanse of the car's door) aren't quite the same, and I may well experiment further with different formats.
captured camera lens focal length aperture shutter speed shooting mode exposure bias metering mode ISO flash image quality RAW converter cropped?
2.39pm on 24/9/05
Canon 20D
EF 70-200 f/4L USM
131mm (210mm equiv.)
f/4.0
1/160
aperture priority
+0.0
evaluative
200
no
RAW
C1 Pro
cropped to 2x1
comment byKevin at 09:11 PM (GMT) on 14 October, 2005
I don't mind the idea of cropping, and do it when required.
Only having a compact point and shoot doesn't allow the full frame composition that I am after all the time, so cropping is the only answer.
I like the 2x1 crop on this to still include the passengers in the rear if the car.
comment byMister Max at 09:26 PM (GMT) on 14 October, 2005
Really great exuberance!
comment byandrew at 09:26 PM (GMT) on 14 October, 2005
She doesn't look like she's driving.. oh ... that's right; the wheel's on the right side :P
comment bynogger at 10:32 PM (GMT) on 14 October, 2005
Nowt wrong with cropping. It's part of the standard toolbox.
comment byKevin at 11:34 PM (GMT) on 14 October, 2005
I dont get how you crop something to make it look wide? How does that work? Did you stretch the picture?
comment bytobias at 12:08 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
Some people will comment on just anything, not me...
comment byDave Pritchard at 12:42 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
I have been watching your blog for a long time (I even have it linked from my blog...), but have never posted. But today, I have thoughts to share with you.
I totally agree about shooting in camera is the way to go. I also agree that different formats are exciting. So here is what I did. I bought more cameras. Now don't let your wife hear me say that. I bought a Horizon 202 that has a 120 degree field of view. That is fun and only about $200 American. I also bought a Holga (a camera I always thought you would have fun with) and a Rolleiflex. The square format is a great time. Both are film based, but I have been enjoying that too.
Anywho... your photography has been highly influential to me, and I patterned my whole web site after you. Thanks for all the thought you have provided me with...
comment byPhil at 01:14 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
You gotta crop sometimes. I totally agreee with what you're saying that it can take away from the original picture if its edited much. I sometimes dont like to crop my pics, but it can be necessary at times.
Nice composition. I like pictures that capture 'real' moments, as opposed to posing.
comment byKevin at 01:20 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
So someone answer: how do you crop a normal picture to make it look like its wide angle or panoramic.
comment bynuno f at 03:08 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
I know what you mean.
I'm no particular fan of cropping an image but in certain cases it's necessary as the final result is more appealing.
I found that some photos work very well with a square crop.
comment bymysixstring at 05:48 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
The thing I like about this picture is what is not the center of attention. The photo seems to suggest that the other people in the car are where the story is really at and the smiling, waving woman is just a front. The fact that the word "KILLS" floats right above her head speaks to this as well. All of this is made possible by the cropping you chose. The image flows very well this way and I think you made the right decision. Thanks for all the great images.
comment byPaky at 05:51 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
A very pretty image. I like the photos of people. Barcelona Spain
comment bytif at 08:17 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
I think NOT cropping is like not having help when you're lifting weights, good exercise but not really practical. Even the unusual crop doesn't make this picture interesting for me though. Maybe there's something personal about it that makes it interesting to you?
comment byPhil at 08:20 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
Theres just something about this photo. Its very real and i like that.
comment byfraxinus at 08:40 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
I just love the thought of Henri Cartier-Bresson turning up on an assignment only to find his batteries are flat...oh how things have changed, not all for the better.
comment by Larsen at 11:12 AM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
Kevin, think about it: If you have a picture that's, say, a normal wide shot, and it's original format is 40 x 29 centimeters. If I cut away half of it, say from middle to bottom, I will have a picture that's about 40 x 15 centimeters...which is rather panoramic. Of course, you can even make a panorama out of a height shot, using the same technique.
comment bydave at 12:36 PM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
Hello!
comment bytc at 03:21 PM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
Not quite at your best here, but I agree the crop was worthwhile.
comment byMoussa at 05:37 PM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
This is one of the very few of your photos that looks spontaneous, natural and of this world. I like it very much. Cropping is good any time you feel you need to use it.
comment byneowenyang at 07:31 PM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
there's something filmy about this image...
comment by Donald Townsend at 08:32 PM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
Cropping is important when I can't get close enough to the subject. Of course it is a tool to correct the balance of a shot. I wouldn't want to miss it though a good picture composed in the camera what I strive for.
comment bydjn1 at 08:38 PM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
Thanks everyone. What I could have mentioned about this shot is that this woman (and her companions) were just driving past as I took this shot. In other words, I didn't know her, and had never seen her before ... which is one of the reasons I liked it.
comment byMike at 08:42 PM (GMT) on 15 October, 2005
David-
This is the first shot I have seen on your site that looks like a regular, unprocessed, everyday shot. I don't mean that in a bad way, but for some reason it isn't like most of your others.
As for cropping, I have noticed that you do treat the in-camera cropping quite seriously, and I frankly never quite understood that. I know your position on post-processing, which you do so well: the idea there is to get the pic to the way you "see" it. But I don't see why cropping selectively, even a significant amount, outside of the camera is any different (or any worse) than post-processing for color, blur, etc. I know that you do crop in post-processing just a little bit on many of your shots... That to me is no different from cropping it more.
Anyway, personally, I think cropping in post allows you to see a shot anew without distraction, and often at least with me I find dramatic ways to improve a shot that way. In other words, I wouldn't throw a shot away and not use it if it could be improved 200% by cropping it by 1/3. perhaps if my shooting was more accurate I wouldn't need to do that as often as I do...
But your photography is just incredible and I am a huge admirer of yours. I very much admire the fact that you can frame the shots so well !
comment byVelviaPix at 02:52 AM (GMT) on 16 October, 2005
Mike, If Dave doesn't mind it, I would like to respond from my own opinion about cropping.
I do agree with David on my disliking of cropping. I rarely do it myself because of one reason, I don't want to rely on it, to worry less about a good composed shot. If we all had hoge resolution cameras, and decided to crop, our phorographs would probably look great, but our "eye" would not be as well trained. On the other hand, I believe there are definitely times when an image is much more powerful if cropped, and if you do that at the post processing time, you are simply adding the extra element of post processing (along with USM, blurr and so on) that the image needs, BUT you did not rely on a wide angle, low res image to get something ok out of it, you actually took the image you wanted and made it more like you liked it.
Like I said, I rarely crop, but there is NO WAY David's post of October 12 would have been one of my favorites had it not been as it ended up being.
comment byViking at 07:25 PM (GMT) on 16 October, 2005
Nothing wrong with interesting crops like this in my book. Cropping a poorly composed 4x3 to a better-looking 4x3 is kinda cheap, but going to a 2x1 or something else is completely different. 4x3's get old anyway.
I went to work by train today, so took my camera along in the hope of getting something decent to put up this evening, but hadn't realised that the batteries were flat. So, it's back to raiding the London shots from a couple of weeks ago. As for this one: I've had a go at processing it a few times, but wasn't happy with any of my attempts until I decided to crop it to 4x2, all of which has got me thinking about my attitude to cropping. On the whole, I try to avoid it, at least in any substantial way; mostly because I think in-camera compostion is important. Changes such as this though (which in this instance removed an unremarkable expanse of the car's door) aren't quite the same, and I may well experiment further with different formats.
camera
lens
focal length
aperture
shutter speed
shooting mode
exposure bias
metering mode
ISO
flash
image quality
RAW converter
cropped?
Canon 20D
EF 70-200 f/4L USM
131mm (210mm equiv.)
f/4.0
1/160
aperture priority
+0.0
evaluative
200
no
RAW
C1 Pro
cropped to 2x1
I don't mind the idea of cropping, and do it when required.
Only having a compact point and shoot doesn't allow the full frame composition that I am after all the time, so cropping is the only answer.
I like the 2x1 crop on this to still include the passengers in the rear if the car.
Really great exuberance!
She doesn't look like she's driving.. oh ... that's right; the wheel's on the right side :P
Nowt wrong with cropping. It's part of the standard toolbox.
I dont get how you crop something to make it look wide? How does that work? Did you stretch the picture?
Some people will comment on just anything, not me...
I have been watching your blog for a long time (I even have it linked from my blog...), but have never posted. But today, I have thoughts to share with you.
I totally agree about shooting in camera is the way to go. I also agree that different formats are exciting. So here is what I did. I bought more cameras. Now don't let your wife hear me say that. I bought a Horizon 202 that has a 120 degree field of view. That is fun and only about $200 American. I also bought a Holga (a camera I always thought you would have fun with) and a Rolleiflex. The square format is a great time. Both are film based, but I have been enjoying that too.
Anywho... your photography has been highly influential to me, and I patterned my whole web site after you. Thanks for all the thought you have provided me with...
You gotta crop sometimes. I totally agreee with what you're saying that it can take away from the original picture if its edited much. I sometimes dont like to crop my pics, but it can be necessary at times.
Nice composition. I like pictures that capture 'real' moments, as opposed to posing.
So someone answer: how do you crop a normal picture to make it look like its wide angle or panoramic.
I know what you mean.
I'm no particular fan of cropping an image but in certain cases it's necessary as the final result is more appealing.
I found that some photos work very well with a square crop.
The thing I like about this picture is what is not the center of attention. The photo seems to suggest that the other people in the car are where the story is really at and the smiling, waving woman is just a front. The fact that the word "KILLS" floats right above her head speaks to this as well. All of this is made possible by the cropping you chose. The image flows very well this way and I think you made the right decision. Thanks for all the great images.
A very pretty image. I like the photos of people. Barcelona Spain
I think NOT cropping is like not having help when you're lifting weights, good exercise but not really practical. Even the unusual crop doesn't make this picture interesting for me though. Maybe there's something personal about it that makes it interesting to you?
Theres just something about this photo. Its very real and i like that.
I just love the thought of Henri Cartier-Bresson turning up on an assignment only to find his batteries are flat...oh how things have changed, not all for the better.
Kevin, think about it: If you have a picture that's, say, a normal wide shot, and it's original format is 40 x 29 centimeters. If I cut away half of it, say from middle to bottom, I will have a picture that's about 40 x 15 centimeters...which is rather panoramic. Of course, you can even make a panorama out of a height shot, using the same technique.
Hello!
Not quite at your best here, but I agree the crop was worthwhile.
This is one of the very few of your photos that looks spontaneous, natural and of this world. I like it very much. Cropping is good any time you feel you need to use it.
there's something filmy about this image...
Cropping is important when I can't get close enough to the subject. Of course it is a tool to correct the balance of a shot. I wouldn't want to miss it though a good picture composed in the camera what I strive for.
Thanks everyone. What I could have mentioned about this shot is that this woman (and her companions) were just driving past as I took this shot. In other words, I didn't know her, and had never seen her before ... which is one of the reasons I liked it.
David-
This is the first shot I have seen on your site that looks like a regular, unprocessed, everyday shot. I don't mean that in a bad way, but for some reason it isn't like most of your others.
As for cropping, I have noticed that you do treat the in-camera cropping quite seriously, and I frankly never quite understood that. I know your position on post-processing, which you do so well: the idea there is to get the pic to the way you "see" it. But I don't see why cropping selectively, even a significant amount, outside of the camera is any different (or any worse) than post-processing for color, blur, etc. I know that you do crop in post-processing just a little bit on many of your shots... That to me is no different from cropping it more.
Anyway, personally, I think cropping in post allows you to see a shot anew without distraction, and often at least with me I find dramatic ways to improve a shot that way. In other words, I wouldn't throw a shot away and not use it if it could be improved 200% by cropping it by 1/3. perhaps if my shooting was more accurate I wouldn't need to do that as often as I do...
But your photography is just incredible and I am a huge admirer of yours. I very much admire the fact that you can frame the shots so well !
Mike, If Dave doesn't mind it, I would like to respond from my own opinion about cropping.
I do agree with David on my disliking of cropping. I rarely do it myself because of one reason, I don't want to rely on it, to worry less about a good composed shot. If we all had hoge resolution cameras, and decided to crop, our phorographs would probably look great, but our "eye" would not be as well trained. On the other hand, I believe there are definitely times when an image is much more powerful if cropped, and if you do that at the post processing time, you are simply adding the extra element of post processing (along with USM, blurr and so on) that the image needs, BUT you did not rely on a wide angle, low res image to get something ok out of it, you actually took the image you wanted and made it more like you liked it.
Like I said, I rarely crop, but there is NO WAY David's post of October 12 would have been one of my favorites had it not been as it ended up being.
Nothing wrong with interesting crops like this in my book. Cropping a poorly composed 4x3 to a better-looking 4x3 is kinda cheap, but going to a 2x1 or something else is completely different. 4x3's get old anyway.